Chase Utley discussion

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ConnieMack
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Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:12 pm

Chase Utley discussion

Post by ConnieMack »

There are 23 second basemen in the Hall Of Fame.

Chase Utley played 16 seasons.

5 of the top 10 HOF second basemen played 20 + seasons, Utley is only 26th all time in games played at second base.

He has a better career WAR than 13 of the HOF 2B, and a better 7 year Peak WAR than 16 of them.

He has the 15th best WAR of all second basemen that have played all time thru 2021 and the 9th best 7 year Peak WAR.

Utley has the 11th best dWAR of all second basemen also.

Wins Above Average - Utley is 10th out of 500 second basemen.

2024 will be Utleys first year on the BBWAA Ballot for the Hall of Fame.

What do you think his odds are and why ?
FolesMVP09
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Re: Chase Utley discussion

Post by FolesMVP09 »

I don't think he will be voted in the BBWAA or come close, too short of a prime in their eyes

Problem with the HOF is that they have lowered their standards. Bill Mazeroski is in the HOF, so based on that Utley should be in

To me a HoFer should be someone who was elite for 5+ years as opposed to just being good for 20 (i.e. Baines)

Utley was elite for 6 years 2005-2010 and had some good years thereafter.
ConnieMack
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Re: Chase Utley discussion

Post by ConnieMack »

FolesMVP09 wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 1:52 am I don't think he will be voted in the BBWAA or come close, too short of a prime in their eyes

Problem with the HOF is that they have lowered their standards. Bill Mazeroski is in the HOF, so based on that Utley should be in

To me a HoFer should be someone who was elite for 5+ years as opposed to just being good for 20 (i.e. Baines)

Utley was elite for 6 years 2005-2010 and had some good years thereafter.
Those are my thoughts as well. Utley needed at least 3 more season like his top 6 to get in.
mrmountie
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Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2021 9:29 pm

Re: Chase Utley discussion

Post by mrmountie »

I kinda think he gets in? He seems like he's someone who can stick on the ballot for a long time and get in on his 10th try as some voting sentiments have changed.
ConnieMack
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Re: Chase Utley discussion

Post by ConnieMack »

mrmountie wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 6:11 am I kinda think he gets in? He seems like he's someone who can stick on the ballot for a long time and get in on his 10th try as some voting sentiments have changed.
That's entirely possible if He can get a few writers behind his case and slowly build momentum and votes over the 10 year period.

But then you look at Bobby Grich, who was almost identical to Utley and got lost in the 1992 HOF votes with 2.6% and was off the ballot.
The caveat for Grich was He was on a really tough ballot that year which eventually had 10 Hall of Famers on it.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/play ... bo01.shtml

https://www.baseball-reference.com/awar ... 2022.shtml

Utleys first year HOF vote could be similar as there are 4 Potential HOF players on his 2024 ballot.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/awa ... 2024.shtml
Skyjack
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Re: Chase Utley discussion

Post by Skyjack »

So much of why we Phillies fans think highly of Utley are the things that he did that don't show up in hard stats. Call it "intangibles". The do anything to get on base to get the offense going like taking or causing HBPs; the tough slide into a base to break up a DP and so forth. We saw it on an everyday basis; voters in other places did not. Then there is the fact that some out of towners didn't like Chase because he was a tough guy to play against.
Christopher
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Re: Chase Utley discussion

Post by Christopher »

Not to get too tangential, but are we in agreement that Rollins belongs in the HOF even more so than Utley?

If it's only ever one guy from the 2008 squad, it must be Jimmy IMO.
Skyjack
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Re: Chase Utley discussion

Post by Skyjack »

Sorry but I'd say Chase. Higher WAR, more power-HRs, RBIs, OBP, SLG, OPS, even higher BA. He was "The Man". Of the significant offensive categories Jimmy did better in two of them, hits and runs. Otherwise Utley has the better stats. Of course in the field, Jimmy was superior at a tough position, SS. Chase wasn't the best defensive 2B when he first came up but as the years went by, he became quite good with the glove.
ConnieMack
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Re: Chase Utley discussion

Post by ConnieMack »

Skyjack wrote: Sun Mar 13, 2022 7:12 pm Sorry but I'd say Chase. Higher WAR, more power-HRs, RBIs, OBP, SLG, OPS, even higher BA. He was "The Man". Of the significant offensive categories Jimmy did better in two of them, hits and runs. Otherwise Utley has the better stats. Of course in the field, Jimmy was superior at a tough position, SS. Chase wasn't the best defensive 2B when he first came up but as the years went by, he became quite good with the glove.
When you look at stats Utley is better than Rollins.

War :
Utley - 64.5 - ( 7 year peak 49.3 )
Rollins - 47.6 - ( 7 year peak 32.6 )

dWAR
Utley - 17.3
Rollins - 15.9

WAA ( Wins Above Average ) :
Utley - 40.9
Rollins - 18.0

Utley's WAR is 99 th all time among all position Players
Rollins' WAR is 224 th all time among all position players
Ben Grimm
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Re: Chase Utley discussion

Post by Ben Grimm »

I loved Chase as a player, but IMO, if Jeff Kent can't get in - neither does Chase. Yes he played during the steroid era. No he was never mentioned in any report or failed any test. If anything, he was a proponent to testing as his clean numbers were getting destroyed by players known to have been juicing. Kent has just one more chance at getting in. He gained a net+ of 3 votes this year. He needs a net+ of 167 next January, and I doubt it happens.
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